Following feedback was received on DesignIndia Forum
Posting From Shreyas Rane:
hi Sudhir & the whole group,
it was indeed exciting to meet all of you at the
seminar. To be frank it seemd like a small NID get to
gether, especially for people who have been away from
NID for a long time & in a place where on visa paper's
called ALIENS!
This experience was a small part of a much bigger
picture and purpose for which the seminar was
organized in the first place. the paradox of economic
development & re visiting cultural values lost in time
was quite interesting.
but more important was the point of view from this
part of the world towards India and a slight glimpse
of what they could expect from Indians.
a dialogue like this one,is indeed needed in todays
world where international borders are on mere world
maps and global politics. people around the world have
the need to connect across borders.
i would like to thank the efforts of the yahoo group
and Uday and all the people behind this movement. for
a revolution this is the spark!
regards
shreyas
NID PD 2001-05
Posting From Sudhir Sharma:
Hi,
Just got back to life after hours in the flight. Good to read the reaction already on Designindia.
The content will be posted soon on the group, so the ones who did not connect via livemeeting can also contribute.
My response to the event:
1. Very well organised. Dot time management.
2. The format was innovative and in that sense a bit experimental. i liked it. Uday says we designers are always talking to each other..so i guess, it was great to have stakeholders but not designers leading the discussions.
3. Discussions were lively but in my opinion there needed to be more time...I knew i should speak, but was wondering where would i fit in.( having gone just for this even)
4. The panel was briefed before the session started and we had the post event dinner...the discussions amongst the panliests indicated that everyone was excited by the evnt, everyone felt this was start of something.
5. The fact that this was a followup of the event in Delhi and that was followup of the Designindia discussions and now it will continue ot be discussed....great.
6. Few things which i' like to mention,
Bruce Nussbam mentioned "Indians can see around the corner"
Uday mentioned 'Indian Inside".
I met so many people i had only seen online..was great meeting the young indian flagbearers...and they are all doingt his very sincerely. Was overwhemed by meeting so
many of us in New York.
Spoke to so many of you (who couldnt come) on phone (by the way- You spend the same amount if you call when i am in India!!!)
The weather was so cold (-16 on 4th) that i wonder if all the problems in the world are because we try and make habitat of a climate which is not meant for humans. New york should have been closed to Mumbai..perhaps near Lonavla..
Had great time outs in the city which never sleeps (two days in New york and i slept about 5 hours in all).
Will i go for the next such event?...will do anything to be there. We need to have moreevents and strike more formats..
I agree we should have focussed a bit on the urban Indian as well..where there are scopes for collaborations and co creations.
I think i will pose the three questions (which were asked to the stakeholders) in three threads for all to respond.
Am back to Hot India and am off to a long travel inlands..
Last- Was good to see consistent credit to Designindia all the time..
Thank Uday.
regards
Sudhir Sharma
1989 nid
Elephant
Mumbai
An interesting thread of discussion:
Posting From Ramu Dhara:
let me restate some observations
The elite middle class of india influnence policy in ways that are disproportionate to India's constituencies. They have plenty of voice and i hear them all the time in newspapers, media and all kinds of forums, In fact that is all I ever hear period.
Its very simple the organizers of the forum have made some editorial choices in this event just as a film director will choregraph his or her film. Will you tell Abbas Kiarostami what he should or should not be putting in his film about Iran
The committee made certain choices, You too have the freedom to organize alternative forums that represent what you want best. This happens to be a choice this session made and perhaps I miss seeing what the real anxiety is about if at all.
As a viewer I happen to like what I saw and am making that heard just as you are making yourself heard
As for my asking for definitions, yes its coming from an academic perspective in case you did not notice from my email id where I am coming to this from
can we define what these terms mordern and "our culture" in any effective way withing India. In art its ofetn said that "renassaince" within Indian movemnets started in bengal. Should we not revisit these terms that are casting Indians within western academic definitions. should we be recasting or defining ourseleves better! Does "our" imply
ownership of some kind? Can i speak for a billion people who happen to be divrese individuals too and try and generalize culture into simplistic categories? I tire of people asking me what is like in "my country." As an India artist friend of mine used to say to me--hey I read Focault and Baudriallard and paint art being inspired by them, does that me any less indian"? and what are we trying to prove anyways?
I think the thread of discussion in there was alos positioning the case against a form of globalization which several academics westerna and indian also agree on. And there are a "miliion mutinies" withing India and we are "argumentative indians" (references to authors
intended)--thank goodness for that and I'd be happy to take these discussions offline
As i said I'm not against the basic thrust of what is being said--in fact my issue is that all i hear from the middle class who want to wish away this constituency it seems
and as for thse binary opposition of western and indian are not my beef--but critical thinking is. and off course the disproportionate influence that teh middle wields on Indian policies.
Just look at the Indian parliament, look at the number of women lawmakers vis-a-vis the percentage of women in India and look at the percentages of male to female lawmakers and my case is being made and my case is being made about disproportinate representation.
yes I am arguing for a level field and affirmative action and am happy to see these forums give voice to everyone
btw as a qualifier, like many here I was also raised in the same socio economic milieu disportionately bends government policy to suit their needs. I got tired of it a long time ago (been there heard that and still hear it) and am glad to hear diverse voices because I am still
learning
Popsting from Neelam Chibbar:
hang on, hang on ramu, relax, lets look at the spirit behind ,
i dont think anyone one wants to wish a certain constituency away, the point is that this is talked about enough at seminars endlessly just click into indian ngo sector, the reams of mental space and funding that goes into representation of the real indian scenario,is huge, but then what? heres one more place to talk about it, thats very nice,indeed.
ok, mails and feedback that come in provide direction for the future. have we in the last 25 years been able to provide this great big direction to indian design? this is such a huge,diverse country as u said, we need to nurture all kinds of talent,
we have to let all voices speak, theres such a shortage of people who want to think! and then feel! and then do!!!
rgds neelam
and we need a great variety of views,
Posting From Sugandh Goel:
Dear Uma:
Thank you for taking the time to reply. Before I proceed I would like to make it clear that I don't have a business background. I am an Indian..born and brought up in India..but have lived outside the country for the last decade. So even though I have had a western education and professional experience, I am more than familiar with my roots.
Now to point out Ramu's statement on "for the sake of diversity" I would like to request him to follow that very same advice and allow for free expression on this forum. I am not alone in this viewpoint and many others I have spoken to outside this group have the same complaint. I am not here to insult or look down upon but rather to improve and work together to gain that respect we seek in the international design community.
When I mentioned the "direct exchange program" with international consultancies, it's exactly that. It's not necessarily a scenario where the westerners are the teachers and we the pupil.. rather the exchange of thoughts and style is mutual. I am perfectly okay with showcasing the barefoot college craftsmen on such an event.. but perhaps it should have occupied 40% of the conference schedule rather than 90%. Perhaps it was lack of planning and time.. I do not know.
What would have been a better solution was to share the development of all the new design consultancies that have sprung up in India.. Elephant.. Idiom..Ticket.. Desmania..etc. It would have been nice to see slides of their work and capabilities to give the Americans an idea of our growing potential.
To your point: " I also find problematic the myth we perpetuate that without the intervention or representation of "designers" educated in mostly "western" type of
education (despite exposure to Jawaja models etc) are the best and that
craft will not "evolve" and instead dissolve" without the intervention of
such designers." I would like to mention that it's not completely true. If you look up on the History of stores like Fab India.. which are doing a great job at employing the Indian Artisan.. you will find that it was in fact started by a westerner. Another interesting Case Study would be that of China. China like India has a huge craft sector. The reason they are able to survive is because they have globalized their products. A simple product such as a chopstick... which is traditionally used as a tools for eating.. has been globalized and marketed abroad as a fashion hair accessory. If we were to think that Design and business are two different entities, then we will continue being on this current path... whether you think this path is positive or negative, it's for each of us to evaluate.
Thanks,
Sugandh Goel
Whirlpool Corporation
Posting by Uma Chandru
Dear Ramu
If I am not reading it wrong, Sugandh was also critquing the use of terminology such as "modern" and 'posiibly "underdeveloped" etc and i don't really see why one can't be proud of "our own culture" and try to hang onto it in a increasingly homogenizing and globalized world as long as it doesn't harm someone else.
While I agree Sugandh that we must not always showcase our problems to the west, and that we should "revolutionaize" the way the craft sector in India is perceived, like you I am not sure if I agree that craft should be a separate design sector (Ranjan has also recently argued for separate institutes for the 230 sectors) or that we should sweep our rural sector under the rug at forums such as the Design with India NYC discussions where there are 'westerners" present. I also find problematic the myth we pepretuate that without the intervention or representaion of "designers" educated in mostly "western" type of education (despite exposure to jawaja models etc) are the best and that craft will not "evolve" and instead dissolve" without the intervention of such designers. As we are all aware, the past several decades of design intervention have done little for crafts people who are made to perceive that they are at the mercy of the "big D" to "evolve" and reach new marekets, while their culture disintegrates. I believe there is also great value today in trying to retain "cultural integrity" that is terra based and environmentally conscious rather than merely be driven by market greed. But the problem is how does one create sustainble livelihoods and social equity along with this? This is a challenge that hoepfully is being addressed by all of you at Design With india NYC.
I also find the notion of "western" and indian consultancies whereIndians designers are the learners and the "westerners" are the ones to teach us about how to deal with global customers veyr problematic. It is ironic that "westerners" (designers and businesses) at Davos and other places are looking to conquer emerging markets in nations like ours including how to make products and services that they can sell to our rural people and we think we should and can find western customers!Perhaps designing for western companies who want to conquer rural markets.
And are we always going to always have the subservient mentality that is a result of our colonial past and think that we have to "rise" to the level of the west and that we have no strengths that those in the west are seeking to understand and "emulate" and perhaps even exploit as our colonial rulers did?
And yes-all perspectives must be discussed in forums such as New york-and I am glad to hear that the rural craft sector is getting its day -but is it really being rperesented by the "non elite"?
Uma V Chandru
Faculty of Design
Srishti School of Art, Design and Technology
Posting from Ramu Dhara:
hi
I think for the sake of diversity I have issues with some of the terms you use Let me qualify I have nothing against the the basic thrust of your argument
I do have issues with the usage of the words "underdeveloped," "mordern" and "our own culture." These are problematic definitions and raise a window on what we wish to edit within these forums and want to edit out
Its a democratic discussion and everyone has a right to be there and
talk about the underrepresented voices both in the majority and minority
From my part, it was very satisfying to hear all of it and I cannot wait to hear more and have no desire to hear one part of India only at any rate! That is so limiting to my mind!
There is no such thing as a different sector of "design" which is a B school jargonistic way of categorizing the world! I think you missed the main thrust in this forum. Ideas are not the prerogative of the elite alone!
Ramu Dhara
Posting by Sugandh Goel
Hello All:
Firstly a big congratulations to all of you for your efforts in organizing a Design with India and IDSA conference in New York tonight. Although I was unable to attend it, I was present as a remote participant and had the opportunity to view and listen to the discussion points brought up at the meeting.
However, I must confess my disappointment with the content of the discussions. We as Indian Designers really need to rethink our thought process about design and understand the distinguishing factors between the Design Industry and the Craft industry. I agree that our crafts need to be promoted but they are not the only factors that need a boost in order for us to gain recognition and appreciation as an avant-garde design society in the world. Like someone mentioned in the meeting (and excuse me for not getting the name due to technology issues) there is nothing wrong in thinking BIG! Yes, Rural India needs support, but that is a different sector of design. It's Craft! Design and talking specifically about Industrial design, we need to focus on areas we lack as compared to some of the world class consultancies that produce not only user friendly design but also "beautiful" and appealing design (What about color/finish/material...Trends..User research...). The design
challenge here is not how we emulate their design style but how we create our own which is unique to our culture yet appealing to the world audience. We need to revolutionize the way the craft sector is perceived and bring about an evolution in functioning so it better fits the demands of today...rather than confining ourselves to the age old methods. That's probably the basic principal applied to any business...evolve ..or dissolve..
In my opinion it was perhaps not the best solution to showcase India's rural and underdeveloped areas at such a conference. Why are we just so focused on that? That's something the international audiences get to see in abundance anyway. Let's show them the other facet of India..what I would call :The New age India..rather than Modern India. The word Modern again suggests the emulation of Western Culture. Perhaps that's a start to raising the bar for our culture in foreign minds.
Lastly, what would have been a good solution to the main question raised in the conference was a start of a short exchange program between American and Indian consultancies. Perhaps a 2-3 week direct exchange program where Indian designers get to learn first hand about the operations and ideology of foreign customers and from that evaluate themselves what they need to do to come up to that level.
Just my 2 cents on the conference.
Thanks,
Sugandh Goel
______________________
Industrial Designer
Whirlpool Corp., USA
Columbus College of Art & Design
www.purebysugandh.com
+1.614.477.4698
Posting by Praveen Nahar
HI Ranjan,
I attended Design with India stratagy session with about 15 students (majorly from PD) between 4:15 AM till 6:25 PM (India time). We joined almost 30 min late as we did'nt have latest version of windows media player, and it took more then 20 min to download 11 mb file at 4:15 AM.
I feel that Microsoft Live control would have been more interactive. They did'nt take questions online. Some pictures of the event should have been posted time to time. Would these recordings be available online in the form of 'podcast'?
I tried recording with 'Live', but the option was disabled by adminstrator.
Overall it was a wonderful experience.
-- Praveen
_____________
Praveen Nahar
Coordinator, Product Design
Faculty of Industrial Design
NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF DESIGN
Paldi, Ahmedabad 380 007 INDIA
Posting by Hridayesh Deshpande
Dear All:
I have been reading exchanges started in response to the Design with ndia and IDSA Conference with great interest. I have not been a witness to the conference. Hence I am not commenting about the conference, but on the discussions that followed the conference. I have a few points to add without personalizing my response to any individual in particular.
The question that always comes to my mind is that how long we are going to be "Prisoners of our own past". With all due "Pride and Prejudice" about the country and its brilliant past, it is our
present and the future that we need to be concerned about. While our past is a good context, it need not be over emphasized. Discussions followed by actions revolving around these issues are the need of time.
I think "Design in India" is a great opportunity for all of us.
Design relates with markets. Be it rural or urban, haves or have
nots. It is all about consumers / users in these regions that design should relate to. Here I am reminded of "Fortune at the Bottom of the Pyramid" theory by CK Prahlad. If we use the same theory and apply it to Design, I think Design for Rural India presents a great opportunity to all of us. As rural situation prevails in many countries in the world, designs, experiments and successes thereafter could be emulated across the world thus providing a business case.
Till now India focused on traditional manufacturing industries and then on IT industry. As we transit into an innovation-fuelled
economy, the driving force in the next phase of our development will be the imaginative and creative capacity of our people. The new architects of the global economic landscape are those who apply their imagination, creativity and knowledge to generate new ideas and create new value. Multi-dimensional creativity - artistic creativity, business entrepreneurship and technological innovation - will be the new currency of success.
Worldwide, the creative cluster (arts and culture, design and media) has been observed to be among the fastest growing sectors of developed economies. Creative industries not only contribute towards the economy directly, they also have a powerful, indirect impact on the rest of the economy - by adding style, aesthetics and freshness to differentiate our products and services. To succeed and thrive, India must tap on the creative cluster (arts and culture, design, media) and recognize them as one of the vanguards of economic growth. "Cluster Approach" as promulgated by Michael Porter could be an effective tool in tapping the potential of Creative Industries.
What I could not understand in the discussion are the bytes about elite, non elite etc. In fact anyone who is having ideas
automatically becomes elite so where does this classification stand.
I think that's the direction we must take i.e. to make the concept
of Creative Industries an important entity and reap economic benefit for all constituencies.
With best Wishes to all!
Hridayesh Deshpande
Director
Creative-i College
hridayesh_deshpande@yahoo.com