PART 5 (B) - THE LAST RECORD SALE
illustration courtesy of Carl Young aka Botley-Celli
l JOHN PEEL PLAYS THE GRUNDY
l DO IT YOURSELF
l PC HELL
l A TALE OF TWO BANDS
l COBRA COBRA-CABANA
l THE GLC CONCERT – JUNE ’84 – WERE YOU THERE?
l ‘MUDA THE BROODER
l IT SOUNDS SO NICE WHAT YOU’RE PROPOSING
l YOU DON’T DO IT
- YOU DON’T THREATEN JOHN PEEL
l A RECORD COMPANY MAN AT OUR GIG?
AFTER ALL THIS TIME?
l MOVING OUT OF EGMONT
l THE WEDDING
l TONIGHT’S THE NIGHT - FAREWELL TO BOTLEY
l FUNERAL FOR A FRIEND
l THE LAST RECORD SALE
JOHN PEEL PLAYS THE GRUNDY
PETER WYATT
I thought Charlie Manson had put a curse on us - but the most wonderful thing happened the next night. I still get a tingle when I think of it.
JERRY ZMUDA
We were in the garage winding down after a rehearsal - the radio is on - then it happened. John Peel said the words “Here's a new band who show a great deal of promise - and thank you Jerry for your letter - I like to think of my show as a healthy alternative to alcohol. This is Septimus Grundy.”
PETER WYATT
I was in heaven - heaven when I heard Peely play London After Midnight. That's my bass on there - that's you Jerry singing, now Dermott's taking to the bridge - and Buckle bashing away - it's us - being played on the radio. In session that night Peely played some other new band called The Smiths - we switched them off.
DERMOTT COLLINS
Septimus Grundy on the radio!!! Fuckinell!!! I called Cobra and he shot round with a bottle of Jack Daniels. He was made up for us.
JERRY ZMUDA
After we got played on Peel I expected to get deluged with phone calls, congratulating telegrams, offers of blow jobs. Didn't happen. But it was still a thrill. Thanks Peely - I will love you forever for that.
PETER WYATT
To me - just getting played on Peel was something special - something to treasure. We used to listen to his show when were nippers, getting into music for the first time. And now we were part of it.
LYDIA DANCEY
I got a phone call at the halls of residence from Peter.
“Peter why are you calling?”
“Jerry wants me to tell you that Septimus Grundy were played on John Peel last night.”
“Wow! That's wonderful - why couldn't he tell me himself?”
“You know how he is”.
My curiosity was piqued. There was this spotty anorak kid on my floor who was always asking me to go to gigs with him. He taped the John Peel show religiously. I listened to his recording of the show and this time I was suitably impressed by Septimus Grundy - the production was superb. But to be honest I was even more impressed by this new band in session - The Smiths.
JERRY ZMUDA
I was simply dieing to get back with Lydia. She was coming back to Sunbury-on-Thames for the week-end to see her parents - so I knocked back a couple of shots of Jack Daniels and I called her, and trying to sound suitable nonchalant, suggested meeting up.
LYDIA DANCEY
I'd met other boys in the time that I'd split with Jerry. It made me realize he wasn't all that bad. Most guys are emotionally stunted, self-absorbed idiots. The last guy I had been with used to grunt stuff like – “Get In There” - at the beginning of sex. Most off putting. Compared to him, Jerry was an angel.
JERRY ZMUDA
So we met up and after a few drinks, I kissed Lydia and I went into spasms when she agreed to give me a second chance. Riding a wave of optimism I made a drunken declaration – “I want our relationship to be special. Why should I waste time chasing other girls, when I have found THE ONE? You - Lydia Dancey - the love of my life.”
DO IT YOURSELF
JERRY ZMUDA
The General Election was coming up but Peter didn't seem bothered, his line was - “they're all the bleedin' same.” Naive. So in desperation for some astute political debate I turned to Dermott - his contribution was “Margaret Thatcher - Lager Snatcher!” It was Milk Snatcher - you cretin. He couldn't even get that right. I didn't want to talk to Lydia, for fear of some “gospel according to Paul Weller” remark, and I didn't want a row so soon after getting back together. So I was internalizing everything - and putting it down in my lyric notebook.
PETER WYATT
Septimus Grundy didn't set out to sound punk, it's just how it came out when we started learning our instruments. But the 80s wasn't a time for people like us. It was the age of the ponse - you know the Human League, ABC, Duran Duran - all dressing and sounding like ponces. That is why we never really fitted in with the music scene of the time. So I woke up one morning and thought - Fuck It. If those music biz fuckers won't take any notice - we'll fucking do it ourselves.
THE BIG LOG
Peter called, asking about contacts for pressing a 1,000 seven inch singles. He wanted to put the demo I did with them on an EP.
PETER WYATT
I priced it all up, it was about £750 for the records - a thousand of them - £500 for the sleeves if you wanted them in colour, which we obviously did. Artwork would be free - we'd get Botley to do one of his drawings.
JERRY ZMUDA
Peter sat me down, he was fired up with a sense of purpose. But I didn't like the idea, if we were good enough, surely a record company would pick us up eventually. Putting the record out ourselves is what they call vanity publishing.
PETER WYATT
I explained to him –
“Why should we wait around asking for permission from some record company git to exist as a band? If we press our own record then at least Septimus Grundy is leaving something behind - literally a record that we existed. Something to give to our friends, family. But also for DJs to play at gigs - a promotional tool.”
JERRY ZMUDA
Can't we do that with a cassette tape and save some money? I wasn't into this at all - but Peter was on one his missions and very persuasive. But when he talked about the record sleeve I put my foot down.
PETER WYATT
It seemed perfect - get Botley to do one of his drawings of us. Like the one he did in the garage.
JERRY ZMUDA
No way! People will think it's a record made by retarded people. And why was I a sad-faced dog?
DERMOTT COLLINS
I liked being a crafty looking wolf.
PETER WYATT
It was important to keep Botley involved - made him feel part of the firm. I was still worried about him. He had no proper job since leaving school, just temping. We were his only friends - now that was REALLY worrying.
JERRY ZMUDA
OK that’s nice Peter, you’re a compassionate soul. But that doesn’t mean he has to draw the cover for our record.
PETER WYATT
I said – “If we each stump up £500 we could do this record thing.”
But Jerry was being such a stick in the mud, going “Uh - I don't where I can hold of that kind of money.” In the end I thought - Fuck It!
Shame.
ROY HOOKE
He should have come to me - I would have happily put up ALL the cash in a heartbeat. Anything to win Peter’s trust and acceptance.
PC HELL
LYDIA DANCEY
I moved out of halls of residence to a flat in Battersea with two friends - while Jerry was still at that tip with Peter in Egmont Court, Hersham.
JERRY ZMUDA
I wanted my relationship with Lydia to be special, to rise above the problems of other relationships - jealousies, dominance, lack of communication. But very soon I'd often find myself with nothing to say to Lydia and a long silence would fall upon us. Was the silence because we didn't need to be talking all the time, that we had some kind of psychic connection? Or was it the same kind of empty silence that my Mother and Father put me through at home? Sometimes I couldn't wait to get back on that train back to Hersham and relax again.
LYDIA DANCEY
Jerry was always talking to me about the song he was trying to write, reading out lyrics to me. Trying to act like the enigmatic artist all the time. I wished he could drop the act and just be himself.
JERRY ZMUDA
Lydia and I did the typical things that studenty couples do - like the Notting Hill Carnival. I was disappointed because I was hoping to be in on some Police and Thieves Clash-style riot. But instead I was surrounded by loads of fat women dancing with policemen. I said to Lydia - wouldn't it be funny if I went up to a gang of raggas and said in a posh Basil Brush accent - “I say! Do you happen to know where the nearest cash-point is? I've only come out with a oner!” She didn't find it funny at all.
LYDIA DANCEY
He said – “Dermott would find that funny.” I said – “Go out with Dermott then.”
JERRY ZMUDA
I didn't like the girls that Lydia had moved in with. One giggled all the time - mirthless and nervous. I nicknamed her 'giggle factory'. The other one was built like a Russian shot-putter, only ever wore dungarees and looked like Ronnie Barker in drag.
LYDIA DANCEY
The advice I got given was, when you start college, join several clubs and societies - and that's how you meet people. And I met Amy and Felicity at some left-wing affair - I can't remember which. When I heard Jerry make snidey remarks about them I saw red.
JERRY ZMUDA
She started calling me a sexist pig over the Ronnie Barker in drag observation. Apparently I was criticizing her because she was “a woman who didn't conform to the idealized objectification of women.” I said to her Dermott would have found that funny.
LYDIA DANCEY
I leapt to the defence of my friends. But in my heart I was disappointed with them. When I signed up at the Polytechnic of Central London - PCL - otherwise known as PC Hell, I had visions of being caught up in a whirlwind of glamorous parties - and meeting a parade of exciting people. Living like a 1980s Edie Sedgwick - but without the self-destruction and hard drugs.
But with Amy and Felicity it wasn't really happening. Going to the Social Sciences end of term disco fundraiser hardly compared to a wild night at the Factory. That's where Jerry could have helped - if he moved to London we could go out more - go to clubs and find out what's really going on in London.
JERRY ZMUDA
Look I know I was tosser when I was teenager. But who wasn't? But Lydia said something that still riles me to this day. The row about my comments about Giggle Factory and Shot Putter extended into her telling me I had no right to write lyrics because I hadn't lived. I lived in “fluffy cotton wool” land in the suburbs and I hadn't suffered enough in life. Cobra had once said something similar and gave me his hard luck story. So in a fit of anger I wrote this song called Hard Luck Story.
DERMOTT COLLINS
Hard Luck Story was one of my favourite Grundy songs - the lyrics are quite funny.
Please your honour, take it easy on me
My dad used to sodomise me while I watched TV
He was shooting himself up at the very same time
While I watched Hector's House - to take it off my mind
Every time I hear that theme tune I relive the horror,
Thank Fuck they don't show Hector’s House no more.
A TALE OF TWO BANDS
JERRY ZMUDA
In the months after being played on John Peel, we carried on gigging, going down well. In the meantime this other band The Smiths, had signed to Rough Trade and had a series of singles out. By the end of 1983 they'd been on Top of the Tops a couple of times and on the front cover of every magazine. The only press Septimus Grundy got in that time was a photocopied fanzine and a short piece in the Surrey Comet. I said to Peter – “How did this happen? The Smiths have become this massive band - and we're still playing toilets to three people and a dog. What have The Smiths got that we haven't?”
PETER WYATT
Contacts. They obviously had contacts in the music biz. As for us - still all we had was Grant what worked in Record Scene.
GRANT WILLIAMS
As soon as the last demo was finished Peter whizzed into the shop, jumping about with enthusiasm, “Just wait till you hear this new demo - it's even better than the last one.” “Even better,” I said, “that's hard to believe” - playing him along. I hadn't even listened to the last one. I took the demo, with no intention of listening to it.
JERRY ZMUDA
As far as getting any press or record company interest in Septimus Grundy, the silence was deafening. Maybe our covering letters were poorly written. I don't know what it was.
GRANT WILLIAMS
It was something like a whole nine months after Peter stuffed his demo-tape into my hand and I’m out with this girl. I’ve got a Street Sounds compilation on the car stereo, trying to be up-to-the-minute. She doesn’t like it. She takes the tape out and slings in a dirty dust-covered tape she’s found on the floor – the hanging off label reads Septimus Grundy. Before I can stop her, the first song comes on, it’s London After Midnight. It was a revelation, full of power and determination. I had to stop the car and play the track again. They sounded like the Ruts. Yes that good!
PETER WYATT
So nearly a year after I give Grant at Record Scene our demo, late one night I get an excited phone call from him.
“Your demo is class mate! You sound like the Ruts.”
I said – “Who wants to see a band who sound like the Ruts in 1984?”
“Me. I want to see a band like that. And I am coming to your next gig.”
LYDIA DANCEY
The Smiths were playing the Hammersmith Palais, and I told Jerry straight - you either go with me to this concert, or I find a myself new boy-friend.
JERRY ZMUDA
What? That bunch of jokers who had their session on Peel the same night he played us? Lydia was dead set on going, so what can you do?
LYDIA DANCEY
I'd been listening to their album over and over. So when they came on stage in a flurry of gladioli, I just melted. The first song they did was Miserable Lie with an extended intro. Swoon!
JERRY ZMUDA
I was seething with jealousy when the Smiths came on. The place was packed and the crowd just went into spasms. And there was me - alone and unrecognized. I'm just as good as him - look at me. My songs are just as good - even better. After the gig, Lydia was going on and on and on about how good the gig was. I bit my lip - I didn't want another row. I wanted my leg over.
LYDIA DANCEY
The following week, I was still going on about the concert, Jerry got drunk and this big cathartic torrent of abuse and accusations came out. I was a snob, I was this, I was that.
JERRY ZMUDA
I wanted her to tell me I was quite good, that I had some talent, that maybe I too could play the Hammersmith Palais, if only as just a support band. Nothing was forthcoming so I stormed out of her flat. The idea was for her to call me back, I walked down the road and looked back, but she hadn't come after me.
I waited for about half an hour and then I got on the train and went back to Hersham. We had split up again.
COBRA COBRA-CABANA
DERMOTT COLLINS
Cobra comes round one Saturday and goes - “Come on geez - we are going shopping.” But one thing this was clear - Jerry ain't invited.
JERRY ZMUDA
I didn’t want to go.
PETER WYATT
I was always worried about Dermott spending time with Cobra. The devil makes work for idle hands. We needed to get Dermott a girlfriend.
DERMOTT COLLINS
He takes me up the West End, all the proper shops. None of your Carnaby Street tat, and he's paying cash for the best gear - Lacoste, Pierre Cardin, Sergio Tacchini. Pukha clobber. I was trying stuff on, and he was going “You like it? you can have it.” We were giving it large - like proper gangsters. So what's going on Cob? Where's the money come from? Big score?
PETER WYATT
Dermott looked sharp in these new threads - like a different bloke. It gave his craziness some sort of authority. Cobra had been treating him like a gangster's moll. I said to him – “Hang about Derm where's all this money come from?”
DERMOTT COLLINS
Dunno.
PETER WYATT
Few weeks later, I get a phone call from Graham Cobb aka Cobra, he’s asking how’s it going with Michelle.
I said “Great - real great.”
He says - “You owe me big, me old china.”
“How’s that Cob?”
“I helped you two get together.”
“Well I think it was more to do with a purple ra-ra skirt, but thanks anyway. So what’s up Cobra? You after a favour?”
DERMOTT COLLINS
Turned out all the money he'd been spending like water was Bank of Toyland, and Cobra didn't know the meaning of the word discreet. Come to think of it, Cob didn't know the meaning of a lot of words. Any old fucking road - the Old Bill were closing in.
PETER WYATT
Cobra says “I am going to need a favour real bad soon.” This is just about the last thing I wanted to hear. Then he says - “The next time you hear my voice, I'll be calling you from Brazil. Tara!” And he hangs up.
DERMOTT COLLINS
He chose Brazil because of Ronnie Biggs. He was going to look him up and open a bar with him. He was going to call it the - wait-for-it COBRA-CABANA.
PETER WYATT
A week later - Cobra phones again -
“How's Brazil?” I ask
“Didn't quite make Brazil, Pete - I'm in Brixton Remand - I've been nicked.”
So Cobra had nicked all this funny money. Some shady character had offered him the forgeries for a sum of money, but instead Cobra goes over there one night, chivs the geezer and steals the bank-notes This is why he was spending as much as he could, as quickly as he could.
What he had wanted me to do was get a load of his gear - personal things - and send them onto him at his hideout in Brazil. Of course I didn't have to do that now. I tell you what - I was fucking relieved.
DERMOTT COLLINS
So of course I had to go to court to show my support. It was a big turn-out - Cobra's a popular guy - apart from in Molesey. Oh! And the firm that did them forgeries weren't too keen on him neither. I finally got to meet his old man - who seemed alright. Not the sort of bloke who'd bugger you after a night down the boozer.
Anyway like the hard nut that he is, Cobra put up a real struggle when he got arrested.
The copper reads back his statement in court, all-matter-of fact - you know how coppers speak. He comes to the bit when Cobra is fighting off the coppers – he reads out word for word what Cobra said - “YOU CUNT DO YOU WANT A SLAPPING?” The place just exploded, deafening cheers. Cobra milking it. The judge wasn't impressed - he gave the cunt five years.
PETER WYATT
When Cobra got sent down - he called over to Dermott and said “Will you wait for me?” “Of course,” Dermott called back.
JERRY ZMUDA
I hate to say it. I was relieved when I heard that Cobra got sent down. He made it perfectly obvious he disliked me and I was always expecting him to do something really unpleasant to me. OK I admit it - he scared me.
DERMOTT COLLINS
I used to go and see Cobra in Brixton every two to three weeks. He seemed fine - fitting into prison life and no regrets. Saying “I'd rather give it large for a day - then live like a cunt the rest of my life.” He told me prison wasn't so bad, but I didn't fancy it meself. Then I didn't visit for a month or two and he was well miffed with me.
THE GLC CONCERT – JUNE ’84 – WERE YOU THERE?
DERMOTT COLLINS
I messed around with girls but……I was still stuck on Angela.
I hadn't seen her for so long I was worried I'd forget what she looked like. I called her brother Jordi for a photograph. He thought I was weird. Guess I was a bit. But he found one for me, which I kept in my wallet.
JORDI KNOWLES (Angela’s brother)
Dermott used to call up all the time. I told him that I had seen Angela a few times, but he couldn’t come along because it was brother and sister meeting up. But I did tell him that we were both going to The Smiths open-air GLC concert at the County Hall, London in June.
LYDIA DANCEY
I had just finished my second year at Polytechnic. What better way to celebrate than to see the Smiths play at an open air concert in London? Maybe I'd meet a nice boy there.
DERMOTT COLLINS
So in the end it's just me, Jerry and Botley going. We get there and thousands upon thousands of student types are there. I saw some bother over by where the Red-Skins were playing. I think the British Steel lot had showed. I didn't get involved though. I had one thing - and one thing only on my mind.
While the Smiths were playing, I climbed up this massive high pillar. I only did it so Angela could see.
The crowd turned towards me and it was a top fucking cackle to have all these people look up at me - even though some of them were shouting “Jump.” There was Morrissey warbling away down below, singing about dropping his trousers to the Queen - and me up there - taking away his glory.
JERRY ZMUDA
Everyone was staring at Dermott as he climbed up that pillar. It was one hell of a climb and about a sixty foot drop.
I thought it was pathetic myself. I'm no psychiatrist, but to me this was plainly the act of a psychologically damaged show off. This was supposedly my oldest and best friend.
I started feeling something I'd never felt before. I started feeling the urge to hit Dermott. Right in the mouth.
LYDIA DANCEY
I was watching the band and I looked up and there's this nutter who had climbed this pillar. He must have been about sixty foot off the ground. Then I saw it was Dermott.
DERMOTT COLLINS
Angela had seen me. When I get down she was there waiting for me. She gave me a hug - and a wet warm kiss. But something was very different.
JORDI KNOWLES (Angela’s brother)
Angela was moving in new circles, she was looking very different.
DERMOTT COLLINS
Angela weren't no punk any more. She was dressed straight. She even smelt differently - that make-up and perfume. Glamorous - I mean proper glamorous - she said to me - “Of course I've changed - it's 1984 - punk is over”. She was right I guess, but it was still a shock in all the years that I hadn't seen her.
JERRY ZMUDA
Angela always knew how to stand out in a crowd. When she was the ice queen of punk she stood out in school assembly with her peroxide white hair. Now at the GLC concert she stood out in her expensive designer clothes against a backdrop of scruffy students. What had happened?
LYDIA DANCEY
It was the best gig of my life, the Hammersmith Palais was a close second. But there was something about the open air, the political statement, and at that point - the Smiths were the single most important band in the world. At the end of the gig Morrissey threw his blouse into the audience.
JERRY ZMUDA
I begrudgingly have to say that the Smiths were excellent that day. I finally got them. They had taken the position that The Jam used to have a few years before, as the British band. When Morrissey threw his top into the ground I saw this scrum. I thought, if I break off a piece, I can send it to Lydia - as a present - a peace-offering.
LYDIA DANCEY
There was about two dozen Morrissey-crazed people trying to get a piece of this blue and white-flecked blouse, made of this awful synthetic fibre. It was getting fierce but I wasn't going to let go. I mean - this was Morrissey's blouse.
JERRY ZMUDA
I dived in, and as the blouse was ripping, I grabbed a small piece, and then everyone just clawed away at it. It was like a pack of hyenas on some poor polyester gazelle. Then I saw her. Holding a piece of the same blouse.
LYDIA DANCEY
Was this fate? It seemed like it. We both held up our piece of the blouse put them together - and we laughed.
JERRY ZMUDA
It seemed that the Smiths was playing at fate, and insisting we got back together. Who was I to argue?
LYDIA DANCEY
We were talking a little cagily at first, but it was clear that we both wanted to get back together.
After our emotional re-union we went over to see Dermott and Botley. That's where I met Angela. Dermott had a special respect for this smartly-dressed woman. He wasn't all sarcastic and irritating around her. I thought it would be good for Dermott to finally get a proper girlfriend. It might straighten him out.
DERMOTT COLLINS
There was me saying to Angela – “Give us your phone number,” dead set that this time I would never to let her go. Then I ask the question I wish I never asked –
“What are you doing for money?”
“I do very well - now.”
“Yes, but what do you?”
She gave me a saucy look - raised her eyebrows and then I twigged. I looked back at her and she said –
“It's all high class, men with lots of money.”
Like that was supposed to make it alright. I could feel my eyes filling with tears. I was about to choke, trying not to cry. Then I ran away. I ran through the crowd and over the bridge. It was only until I was well away from everyone that I started sobbing by the river, looking at her photograph – when she was a punk.
PETER WYATT
Dermott never talks about his inner feelings. Never talked about his Mum, or anything. After the GLC concert I knew something terrible had happened. I insisted he told me, and eventually he did. All I could do was listen, I couldn't offer any advice. The girl you love becomes a prostitute, this was way out of my experience. All I could say was –
“She's just one girl Dermott - there's millions of others.”
“But this is Angela.”
‘MUDA THE BROODER
PETER WYATT
The geezer at the Hand & Spear got on the phone to us, he wanted us back. I was getting savvy, I knew we were pulling a crowd. I said this time we want a tonne. He said Ok immediately. I should have asked for more. I thought we were on cigar city - one hundred pounds to play a gig!
DERMOTT COLLINS
It was one of the Molesey lads what suggested we did a cover version of a Jam song.
PETER WYATT
Jerry was acting strange before the gig, refusing to drink –
“Is something up?” I ask him. “Is it Lydia? Dermott winding you up? You can tell your uncle Peter.”
He says nothing, nursing his coca cola.
DERMOTT COLLINS
I'm the one who should be moody. I was in heartbreak hotel over Angela. But Jerry - he was moping around. I said to him – “I haven't seen you like this since Petra the Blue Peter dog died.” Not a flicker of a laugh. Cruising for a bruising that mug.
GRANT WILLIAMS
At the Hand & Spear gig, the band do London After Midnight and I’m bopping away - then they stop. We’re just about to hit them with some appreciative applause when they picked it up, playing the outro of West One by the Ruts - complete with Dermott and Peter giving it the “Shine on Me.” I was awestruck. Before I had to time to draw breath, they went straight into their last song - a cover of Thick As Thieves.
DERMOTT COLLINS
Big cheer coming from The Molesey Boys when they recognised Thick As Thieves. A song they all knew and could sing along to - they went fairly mental.
BUCKLE AKA STUART MARTIN
In the early days of The Grundy, Jerry always used to turn his back on the audience while he tried to play his guitar on the instrumental breaks. And I knew exactly why he did it – because he couldn’t really play, and he didn’t want the audience to twig. But now Jerry would turn his back and start thrashing at his guitar while he locked into my eyes with his stare. He was like a man possessed as we bashed out the end of the song, in a trance. Wow! Talk about transformation.
GRANT WILLIAMS
They were superb that night. I had no doubt that I was seeing a band that was going to make it.
MICHELLE BAXTER
I was taken aback. Jerry who I always thought was a drip - was quite different on stage, he wasn't Marvin Gaye - but he could hold a note. It wasn't my type of music - but I could appreciate it. And of course when they finished off with that Jam song, the place went berserk.
BUCKLE AKA STUART MARTIN
The R’n’B covers band I used to play in always used to go down well - I mean you can’t go wrong with that stuff. But never before had I played in a band that had gone down as well as Septimus Grundy did that night. They literally raised the roof.
PETER WYATT
Course there's no backstage at the Hand & Spear, so after the gig we sit down at our table next to the stage, the crowd's still cheering, and everyone's coming up to us. One of the Molesey lads says something like – “You saved the best till last.” Jerry didn't like that.
DERMOTT COLLINS
Jerry was sulking because our cover version of Thick As Thieves went down better than his own songs.
JERRY ZMUDA
I was not sulking I just wanted to put the whole thing in perspective. Our own songs go down fine, but it wasn’t until we played the cover songs that people really got into it.
PETER WYATT
We went down well with a good mixture of people. There was Lydia's lot, posh Weybridge girls and then you had the Molesey Boys.
LYDIA DANCEY
I felt I understood Jerry better after that gig. Particularly after the song Feltham Made Me, which was obviously very personal. His home in the suburbs was his artistic reference point - and that's why he did nothing about leaving Egmont. If an A&R man had come to that show, there was no way they would have not signed them then and there. I went up to them after the show and told them that, but Jerry was sulking.
DERMOTT COLLINS
The crowd loved us - who cares about anything else? When we started out we used go down like a Wet Baboon. Now this - Jerry should be bleedin' happy. I was. But what can you do with 'Muda the Brooder? Giving it the moody Jim Morrison act.
PETER WYATT
That gig at the Hand & Spear was an even better high than getting played on John Peel, and that's something. Even Michelle liked it. I turned to Jerry and he's still all miserable. “SNAP OUT OF IT - YOU SILLY CUNT! WE ARE GOING TO MAKE IT.”
GRANT WILLIAMS
I was blown away. I told them I knew a young A&R scout from MCA. I was going to insist he comes down to the next gig.
IT SOUNDS SO NICE WHAT YOU’RE PROPOSING
MICHELLE BAXTER
I was teasing Peter saying – “you're more committed to the band than me. If the band takes off you'll leave me behind.”
PETER WYATT
I had to prove her wrong. So I did it then and there, on her Mum's living room carpet.
MICHELLE BAXTER
He gets down on one knee and proposed. I was so shocked, but very moved. I said – “Yes, Peter I want to share my life with you.”
DERMOTT COLLINS
When Peter announced his engagement to Michelle, first time in my life I was speechless. Eventually I said – “Peter that's great, but what about us?”
PETER WYATT
You'll still be my friends, I'm just going to be living with Michelle.
DERMOTT COLLINS
But what about Egmont?
MICHELLE BAXTER
One thing was certain though - there was no way I was ever going to live in that tip in Egmont Court.
JERRY ZMUDA
I was thrilled and delighted when Peter called with the news he was marrying Michelle. OK that was my official line, but inwardly I was devastated. I thought it would be the end of us as friends. Michelle was a lovely girl - but Peter's too young to settle down. And what about Septimus Grundy? I immediately felt pressure. Something had better happen with Septimus Grundy - record deal or something, or Peter would just quit and leave me alone with Dermott. At that time, that seemed a fate worse than death.
YOU DON’T DO IT - YOU DON’T THREATEN JOHN PEEL
PETER WYATT
You don't do it. You don't threaten John Peel. John Peel of all people.
DERMOTT COLLINS
What the fuck? This was all Jerry's fault anyway. We were in the van and he was telling Botley about how the geezer from Joy Division first met the boss of Factory Records. They were at a gig, and the Joy Division bloke went up to him and says - “You're a cunt you are. Why don't you put us on your TV show?” And that's how Joy Division got on TV. So I thought - if this works for Joy Division, why wouldn't it work for Septimus Grundy?
PETER WYATT
We were outside a gig at ULU - Red Guitars I think it was - and giving out flyers for a Septimus Grundy gig and John Peel was there. I said Hullo and smiled but he was talking to someone so I couldn't butt in. Then Dermott catches him on the way to the tube station. I thought he was going to thank him for playing our demo, but then I see this real nasty look on Dermott's face.
DERMOTT COLLINS
I told him straight – “You look like a hobbit - you're a fucking cunt - you're lucky I don't stick your head in the gutter.” “Why? Why?” He was going. I said “For only playing my band Septimus Grundy once on your show.”
PETER WYATT
I dashed over to stop it, but by the time I got there Peely had scrambled off. I told Dermott off - but he seemed to think this approach was going to pay off. I wrote a letter apologizing, but Peely never played us again.
JERRY ZMUDA
I didn't find out about this until weeks afterwards. Naturally I was furious. I was considering two options - changing the band’s name and/or kicking out Dermott. I suggested this to Peter - but he said “It's alright - Peely won't take it personally.” Well he never played us again - all because of Dermott - this great big albatross round our neck.
A RECORD COMPANY MAN AT OUR GIG? AFTER ALL THIS TIME?
LYDIA DANCEY
I gave the Septimus Grundy demo tape to the social sec at my polytechnic. I fluttered my eye-lids, played with my hair and went into flirt mode, and so he agreed to put the band on a Friday night in October.
GRANT WILLIAMS
I knew this guy Warren who used to be a sales rep, but then he landed himself a job in A&R for MCA. I gave him a copy of the Septimus Grundy demo. He thought it was “a little retro - but had potential.” I told him how good they were live and he said - OK he’d check them out.
PETER WYATT
I told the boys – “We got to make this next gig a really good one. Grant's getting a Record Company scout down.”
JERRY ZMUDA
A record company man at our gig? After all this time? I’ll believe it when I see it.
DERMOTT COLLINS
You'd think we were preparing for a royal visit the way Peter and Jerry were going on about it.
JERRY ZMUDA
I was disappointed with the venue, it was the same scuzz-hole that I'd been to with Lydia a year before. I was dead paranoid about the A&R man not getting in. I felt as though my whole life depended on this A&R man coming to see us. I had a row with the social sec. I said -
“This guy has GOT to be on the guest list,”
and he was saying - “Well it's a free gig, so everyone's on the guest list.”
“No you don't understand this guy has GOT to get in, even if the place is full.”
PETER WYATT
I calmed the situation down by saying that if it’s a full house, I would stand on the door and personally make sure the A&R man gets in.
JERRY ZMUDA
With Peter announcing he was getting married I felt this was our last chance, we needed to get a record deal - immediately - like now. Otherwise Peter would drift out of the band and away from us.
DERMOTT COLLINS
Me and Botters were playing penny up the wall, and Jerry shouts at us - actually shouts at us – “STOP MESSING ABOUT!” He was so nervous, he was losing it. This just made us laugh.
JERRY ZMUDA
After the soundcheck I went up to the social sec's office to make a call and we started chatting. He showed me all the demo tapes he'd been sent in the last year. They were in eight beer-crates. He said “I couldn't possibly listen to them all.” I stared at the tapes - I realized that Septimus Grundy was just one of thousands.
PETER WYATT
Half an hour before we are due to come on, Grant shows up with the A&R man. He introduces us and we go down to the bar to meet the rest of the boys.
DERMOTT COLLINS
What a plank! He's got a baseball cap with MCA written on it. Then I found out his name is Warren. So out came the old joke – ‘what do you call a geezer with 20 rabbits up his arse?’ I mean you have to do it.
JERRY ZMUDA
Butterflies in my stomach. An A&R man finally at one of our gigs.
DERMOTT COLLINS
But the worst thing about him was that he was saying things like - “yeah really happening'” or - even worse “there's a real vibe about that band.” What a complete ponce.
JERRY ZMUDA
He'd listened to our demo tape and he said it had “potential.”
PETER WYATT
When we hit the stage, we could tell the A&R man was still in the audience because of the baseball cap. He was standing by the mixing desk.
JERRY ZMUDA
In between the songs Dermott gets on the microphone - “OK audience - let's play a game - spot the A&R man.” I tell him to shut up and just play the next song. But he's not finished.
DERMOTT COLLINS
I said - “You can spot the A&R man because he says stuff like ‘happening’ and ‘vibe’. But the dead give-away is the baseball cap with the record company name on it.”
JERRY ZMUDA
Everyone turned to look at the A&R man - I could have died. We play the next song - the next time I look out into the audience the baseball cap - my one beacon of hope - had gone.
BUCKLE AKA STUART MARTIN
We finished our song - and some of the lads are shouting THICK AS THIEVES - THICK AS THIEVES. Jerry is just staring out into the audience.
JERRY ZMUDA
I was scouring the crowd for the chap from MCA. Had he gone to the bar - or had he left? I couldn't see him at all. Then the rest of the band started playing Thick As Thieves.
PETER WYATT
Jerry sang it totally differently from the time before - all pissed off - spitting out the words. Then as the song was coming to the end he put his guitar down and he clumped Dermott.
DERMOTT COLLINS
I was looking out into the crowd, smiling, and I felt this fist in my jaw.
PETER WYATT
Some of the audience laughed - others gasped.
DERMOTT COLLINS
It didn't hurt - just took me by surprise - I fell over the monitor. Then he hit me again.
BUCKLE AKA STUART MARTIN
So those two fighting on stage became the encore.
DERMOTT COLLINS
He fought like a girl - sure he got me on the ground - but that was just a lucky first punch. I was about to whack him hard back but Peter broke us up.
JERRY ZMUDA
I wasn't trying to be hard. Something inside of me snapped. I'd just had enough - enough of Dermott being an idiot and holding me back. First threatening John Peel and now this. I'd worked hard on this band - just to have him throw it away with some stupid jibe at an A&R man. Dermott always gets it wrong. You take the mickey out the A&R man after you've signed the contract with the massive advance.
PETER WYATT
Jerry didn't come back in the van with us. It was real quiet on the way back, Dermott just staring ahead. Botley whispers to me - “They are going to make up are they?” I was nodding – “Of course they will.”
MICHELLE BAXTER
Dermott and Jerry fighting on stage? Hilarious! They should have kept it as part of the act. Audiences would pay good money to see Dermott get a punch in the gob.
LYDIA DANCEY
When you go out with someone and they have a row with someone else - you have to take their side - don't you? I mean Dermott is an annoying git - isn't he? But on the way home Jerry was just going on and on about it. I eventually said – “Fine, you've made your statement on stage in front of a crowd of people, let's talk about me now please.”
JERRY ZMUDA
There was no way back after this. I was going to go off and form a band with another a bunch of people. I'd come to the end of the road with Dermott.
MOVING OUT OF EGMONT
DERMOTT COLLINS
I was waiting for Jerry to apologize. He wasn't man enough - like he wasn't man enough to throw a decent punch. If it hadn't been for me, that no-mark arse-wipe would have gone through life as Jerry-No-Mates. That fucker owed everything to me.
JERRY ZMUDA
My mind had been made up - I didn't want anything to do with Dermott any more. He had been the person holding me back all this time. I told Peter I would continue with Septimus Grundy but only if we kicked out Dermott.
PETER WYATT
And I got the same thing from Dermott - kick out Jerry and continue without him. But I wasn't going to do either - I told them both straight – “EITHER YOU TWO SETTLE YOUR DIFFERENCES OR IT'S THE END OF SEPTIMUS GRUNDY.”
DERMOTT COLLINS
I had a dream around that time. I was in the Music Machine - it's deserted. I'm looking around and eventually at the bar at the very top I see my Mum - she's drinking brandy. I've only ever seen my Mum in a photograph - so I've never actually seen her before - but I just know it's my Mum. She gets me a beer and says - “Be nice to Jerry - he's a good friend.” I say back – “But he's the one who won't talk to me.” Then she disappeared, and I was all alone again.
LYDIA DANCEY
Jerry was insufferable at this time, he just kept going on about Dermott - on and on. I said to him – “Jerry - he's out your life now at last - please shut up about this.” I think he was hoping that Peter would take his side.
PETER WYATT
When I saw the bags packed and on the door-step of Egmont, it really hit home that my friends had fallen out and were moving away. Lydia came along in her Mum's car. Loading it up, I said to Jerry – “Aren't you going to say good-bye to Dermott?” I was hoping that they would get all emotional and sink their differences. Jerry refused, and Lydia drove him away. Later on Frank - Dermott's Dad - came to pick his stuff up. I was left in Egmont alone. My friends had gone. I couldn't stay here any more.
MICHELLE BAXTER
It was perfect timing really. With his friends off the scene, he could spend more time with me. I mean I don't want to be negative - the band were good - but they were a bit old-fashioned - too punky and loud. Peter needed to focus on sorting his life out and our wedding.
GRANT WILLIAMS
I was gutted when I heard that Septimus Grundy had finished. I was hoping to go down in history as the guy who discovered them.
PETER WYATT
The worst thing was when I went to the garage and all the equipment had gone - just Botley's spray painting as the only reminder of the hours we spent there. I was devastated that my friends weren't friends anymore. But the person it upset the most was Botley.
THE WEDDING
DERMOTT COLLINS
With Cob in prison, I was left to buying my own clothes, so I was rooting around in a charity shop - and I dug out a Kung Fu annual from 1975. It took me right back to primary school. I was just about to nick it and show it to Jerry, when I remembered - we're not friends any more. Guess it hadn't sunk in yet.
I used to play the guitar everyday, but after the split I stopped playing altogether.
PETER WYATT
Months passed without them speaking, but I had a strategy. I was going to use my wedding as a way of getting my buddies together again.
TERRY SOUTH
I heard Michelle was marrying Peter Wyatt from Feltham School. What a waste - Michelle’s a nice girl, what’s she doing wasting her life on a loser like him? It would never last.
JERRY ZMUDA
I got a phone call from Peter, “How about coming out on my stag night?”
“No thanks - not if Dermott's going” - then he asked me to DJ at the wedding reception.
PETER WYATT
I asked Botley to be Best Man and he said “No - you can't do that - Dermott and Jerry are better friends.” I set him straight – “I have no better friend in the world than you Carl.”
I did something sneaky. I booked Dermott and Jerry both to DJ at the reception at the same time. The idea being they would DJ together - and become friends again.
ROY HOOKE
I was delighted to get my invite to Peter’s wedding. Had he finally accepted me? This was a good sign. He chose to have the reception at the church hall in Sunbury, the venue where he saw my glittering performance in The Mikado.
JERRY ZMUDA
Apparently Botley in his best man speech, in between the jokes, said something about how Dermott and I should make up. What he said exactly I don't know because I wasn't at the meal. I knew Dermott was going to be there, but I wasn't expecting him to be DJing at the same time. I said - “Look we still hate each other - but let's work out a system - you play two records - I play two records - and that way we'd avoid interacting in any way at all.”
DERMOTT COLLINS
That suited me. Jerry starts playing classic rock'n'roll - music that I got him into. So I put on some punk.
JERRY ZMUDA
Punk? I like punk - but you can't play that at a wedding. I mean you've got the aunties and uncles there. So I put on some Motown. He turns off Stoned Love half way through to put on the Ramones.
MICHELLE BAXTER
I was fuming! Those two clowns seemed dead set on upstaging me on my wedding day.
FRANK COLLINS
The atmosphere was tense, real tense. I though I'd lighten up the proceedings but doing my Mule Train. So I got hold of a tea tray and I'm away.
PETER WYATT
We all laughed - well most of us did, when Dermott's Dad did his party piece.
JERRY ZMUDA
That was my cue to slip off into the night. I gathered up my records and exited - didn't say good-bye to anyone.
DERMOTT COLLINS
The party got a lot better after Jerry bailed. I played Elvis, Chuck Berry, Johnny Kid and the Pirates, Eddie Cochrane - a feast of classic music. Peter got me to play some soul and we toasted the happy couple. Jerry? Who needs that whinging cunt?
TONIGHT’S THE NIGHT - FAREWELL TO BOTLEY
JERRY ZMUDA
I lost count of the times Peter phoned me to try and get me to patch it up with Dermott. He even started using the – ‘he never had a mother - you have to go easy on him’ line.
I was not for turning. Just because Dermott never had a mother doesn't give him the right to go through life acting like a bastard. I had to remind him - I didn't split up Septimus Grundy. It was Dermott, he had become intolerable. I wanted to take Septimus Grundy places - Dermott just wanted to wind people up.
LYDIA DANCEY
They say Christmas is the peak season for suicide.
JERRY ZMUDA
Lydia and I were at a party in Sunbury - I'd invited Botley along. The music in the living room was horrible so I was loitering in the kitchen - knocking back the spirits. Botley came in and asked me when was I going to start talking to Dermott again. I said when “hell freezes over.” I thought I was being clever.
PETER WYATT
I had an early night that night - went to bed at 10 - but I woke up with a jolt at 11.45. I heard a strange muffled sound, I thought it was the next door's cat. But that was around the time that Botley jumped.
According to the police report - Botley left the party at around 11.30 he walked about a mile to the bridge over the M4. And he climbed over the barrier.
LYDIA DANCEY
Jerry was wracked with guilt for a long time afterwards about the things he'd said to Botley about Ian Curtis and suicide being cool. But Botley didn't do what he did to be cool. He did it because his life revolved around his group of friends. His only friends. When that group of friends fell out - he just couldn't face life anymore.
PETER WYATT
And poor Botley jumped. He timed it so he got hit by a lorry. Splattered all over the motorway.
I found out when Botley's Mum called me to tell me about the funeral. Why didn't he call me? Why didn't I go to that party and stop him?
JERRY ZMUDA
This was the single worst thing to happen in my whole life.
DERMOTT COLLINS
I can’t talk about this. I just can’t do it.
PETER WYATT
I still get it - even now, every so often - waking up at a quarter to midnight. It’s my friend saying good-bye.
FUNERAL FOR A FRIEND
PETER WYATT
Botley I mean Carl's Mum came up to us at the funeral, I gulped, I thought she was going to have a go at us for leading her son astray. But she was managing a smile and said that us three had brought Carl a lot of happiness. We were his three best friends and he talked about us all the time.
JERRY ZMUDA
Peter spoke at the funeral. He's not a man of words - but he said it all –
“When Botley, I mean Carl came into our life - it was breath of fresh air. So many people are cynical and only doing you a favour to get something back. Carl wasn't like that - he was pure and innocent. We first became friends over music but over the years we would talk about everything under the sun. I was amazed by his memory.
He was so shy, but when you got to know him you felt truly privileged to know someone so special. I can't lie to you. I can't say he's gone to a better place. I hope that he has. But most of all I wish he was with us today. As long as I live I will never forget my good friend Carl.”
PETER WYATT
The funeral was over - we said our good-byes to Carl. I wanted the three of us to get together and be mates. Septimus Grundy was one thing, but our friendship was another - just forgive and forget.
JERRY ZMUDA
There was no way. No way on this earth I was going to forgive and forget. I needed to get away from Dermott. I just couldn't bear to have him around - even look him in the eye. And seeing him at the funeral was just deeply antagonizing.
DERMOTT COLLINS
Jerry was acting off with me - as if I was to blame for what happened to Botley. We were all to blame. Especially him. He was the one who talked to him at the party.
PETER WYATT
I put my arm round Jerry. I said - “Come on - make it up with Dermott. Do it for Carl - it's what he would have wanted.”
Jerry pushed me away.
THE LAST RECORD SALE
PETER WYATT
I went down Record Scene. Just to catch up with Grant, see what new records were happening. Record Scene had shut down - replaced by a travel agent. It was the end of an era. The end of my youth. Time to forget the past - focus on my marriage and plan a family.
To go Chapter 6 - 1988 Acid House
and all of that business click here.
